Oct 29, 2009

My thoughts on abortion.

I'm been absent. It seems like I've had heavier things on my mind these last few days and they've overwhelmed the lighter things, like smell-goods and goofy neighbors. I've come to the conclusion that I need to just get them out now and I'm going to do just that in the next day or so. I'll say upfront that I have no goal here but to share *me. I don't intend or wish to offend, although I think it's entirely possible I will. I make no apologies for that. In the end, this is my blog and these are my thoughts. I am not sorry for either.

So, the very word "abortion" gets most people on edge, defensive for one side or the other, the moment they read it. I know this and I go into this with some trepidation, but also with confidence in my beliefs. A few mornings ago I received an email from a friend, a "forward" about abortion. It got me to thinking all over again about how I feel. There was a time, 10-30 years ago, that I was not only pro-choice, but pretty much pro-abortion. I never saw abortion as a birth control method, mind you, but a perfectly fine and acceptable solution to an unwanted pregnancy. I was "pro" to the point I was actually an escort and counter-activist. I will say right now that I have ZERO regrets about that...just the opposite, I'm still very proud of what I did and always will be. But, time passes and people change. I've changed. Personally, I would no longer be okay having an abortion. I pass no judgment on those who do...that is between a woman and her God. I will help her, I will support her, I will feel she made the best decision for herself. I *am pro-choice. But, I would no longer feel an abortion is an alternative for myself (pretending I'm even in a position it would be a consideration) and should Jake and his girlfriend find themselves expecting a baby, I will beat them first and then be there for them in whatever they decide. I will no longer suggest an abortion first. I will support them, though, if that is their choice as long as I'm sure they are well-informed about *all options. So, yes, I've changed and I've changed a lot.

What changed me? Well. Logic. Logic changed me. I realized how strongly I felt that all forms of IVF, infertility treatments, surrogacy, etc., are wrong. I feel so *vehemently that these all thumb their nose at God and are basically saying "God screwed up and now I have to fix his mistake." Not everyone is intended to have children and, while I believe so very strongly in God, I also believe God created Evolution, I believe God meant for only the fittest to survive and God makes no mistakes. Period. So, it followed that if I believe that some children were simply not meant to be (infertility) then I also had to believe that some *are (fertility), regardless of the circumstances of either. Like I said - logic.

Do I think infertility-curing measures are right? I do not. I find them to be immoral and offensive to God. Anti-God, even. Do I find abortion to be the same? That's a hard one for me since I do not believe life begins at conception. I don't think life begins until a person is able to take that first life-giving breath on their own and have subsequent breaths sustain that life. Late term abortion? No, no, and NO. I am not okay with that at all, although I will not call it murder. I'm not God. I do wish it didn't happen, though, and don't get it at all, nor do I wish to support it financially, just as I don't want to support infertility treatments financially. Is abortion okay to save a mother's life? A mother should be willing to sacrifice her own life for her child, whether that that child is at 8 months (viable with a minimum of medical intervention) gestation or older...no age maximum. I do not understand this stipulation: "I don't support abortion exceot in the case of incest or to save a mother's life." So, what? A bay conceived of incest is less important? Why? And why should a mother *ever not be willing to give her life for her child?

Now, let me address something else. Murder. I am sick to death of people calling abortion "murder". If you are reading this and really believe it is murder, I mean REALLY BELIEVE IT, what are you doing to stop the murder? Do you rant on blogs and message boards? Do you rant at your dining room table? Do you pray about it all in church and gossip about it with friends? All well and good but why aren't you stopping? Why aren't you killing these abortion doctors so you can save these babies from being "murdered"? Because killing is illegal? That means you put legality over morality, you know. Are you okay with that? Is that Biblical? Is that what Jesus wanted? Law over God? Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way, *no how*, advocating killing abortion doctors. Bless them for having the courage to do what they do for those who feel abortion is their best choice. But I have to ask - if you feel it is murder, why are you not stopping it? If my neighbor was killing infants in his home, you better believe I'd blow his head off in a heartbeat, even if it meant I'd spend my life in prison for doing so. What a small price to pay to save those babies. Legalities are *nothing if you believe in God and what you think God intended.

I welcome comments....they are open. They aren't moderated. Just be logical, that's all I ask.
Have at it.


heather said...

i'll add my few cents...

anyone having had an abortion, past or present, has my love. they made a tough decision i'm sure. i will never judge anyone who chooses that route. and i don't doubt for a second that the abortion has not stayed with them always.

i only wish that route didn't have to happen. meaning, that pregnancies didn't happen except to anyone except for loving families ready and able to take care of them. i know pipe dream!

seriously though i am far more bothered by hearing a news report of a child who was unwanted and then abused. the casey anthony case came to mind (do i have the right name?). i don't know all of the details but remember this one...upon learning she was pregnant she did not want the baby. and she actually wanted to choose adoption. but her mother wouldn't let her. and i tend to think that casey has to have some sort of mental condition and didn't feel strong enough to be able to go against her mother's wishes. how i wish she had, how i wish her mother had encouraged her on what would have been by far the best option.

and the outcome is horrible, and sad.

if casey had been allowed her choice in the matter (if what i read was true) then that sweet little girl would be ok. and even if i casey had chose abortion, to me, that would have been the better option than what the child was born into and what ultimately happened.

ok, so this is all over the place. i hope it sort of makes sense.

and back to my perfect world where children would only be born into loving homes. i think that there ought to be some sort of application process before procreating. i know it's ridiculous. but seriously i went through more to get a cat from animal control than i did to have two children.

belladonna1125 said...

I wish abortions never had to happen. But I don't make that decision for other people. I wouldn't have one, but I don't judge other people for having them. I'd much rather that women have nice, relatively safe abortions than die in alleys or with hangers crammed up their vaginas. I guess I consider it the lesser of two evils.

I can understand why a rape or incest victim wouldn't want to carry a child of their violation to term. If I was raped, I don't know that I'd want to carry the child to term, or that my husband would want to raise the child of my rape. But I don't have conditional views on abortion (ONLY if it's rape or incest), so I guess that makes sense.

I would have put my life on the line for my children from the moment I knew I was pregnant, so I can't even fathom choosing an abortion to save my own life. Really can't. Funny; I always assumed that was a decision the father would make on behalf of a non-cognizant woman (life threatened and all).

won said...

I appreciate the way in which you presented your ideas, without self righteousness and with an attitude of what you alone believe for you.

It had to take some courage to do so, and I applaud you for being true to yourself.

Anemone Pie said...

Heather, I agree 100%, I live neat Orlando and have followed the Anthony case with great interest. I've had the same thoughts you have. And you['re right...2 of my cats came from the SPCA and I went through far more approval and paperwork to get them than I did to get Jake. That's not right.

BD, I sort of agree...I mean, if a rape or incest victim is okay with abortion to begin with, then I get it. But if they are not, if they feel it's killing a baby...how can they? That's awful? And all these people who say "It's murder, it's taking innocent lives and I want it stopped...except in the case of incest or possible death of the mother", how can they possibly rationalize that? If you *generic) think it's immoral, that it's killing a baby, why in the world would circumstances matter?

Won, thank you. I freely acknowledge these are my thoughts only and not necessarily right. No one really knows what is right.

belladonna1125 said...


I guess I can get where someone who is pro-life gets confronted with the rape/incest issue and it changes their view...but then you'd think it would have to change their view across the board, no? I mean, it can't be a "it's okay for me, but not for you" type rationale. It's either okay to abort, or it's not. Point taken.

For instance, I said I can not imagine wanting to abort unless I was raped. I know some women carry such children to term, and I admire them. I don't know that I could do it, and I hope to never find out. But if I allow myself that condition, I have to define myself as "pro-choice," which I do anyway. I simply have made the choice not to have an abortion.

Am I making any sense here?

Anonymous said...

Wow, you have some pretty twisted views! And you really think pro-lifers should be killing people who commit abortions? What about "Two wrongs don't make a right"? There are other ways to try to stop abortion--protests, contacting politicians, voting, etc.--without the hypocrisy of becoming a murderer of murderers.

Anonymous said...

Here's my $.02-I personally have had an abortion. I'm not proud of it nor am I advertising my choice. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about it now even though it's been ten years. I was young-almost 18 to be precise. The father of the baby and his family didn't want their lives to be ruined/affected by the child. I was in high school and didn't feel I was capable of raising a child on my own. My family left the decision up to me. I felt that I had no choice other than to have the abortion. It was a choice that haunts me to this day and it's one that I hope that my daughter never has to make. I think that if I had the choice to make now that I would have carried the baby and either decided to raise it or find an adoptive family. I wouldn't even think about abortion. But, that's solely my opinion. I just wanted to put it out there that the individual may not always feel that they truly have a choice before deciding to have an abortion.

Anonymous said...

While I didn't have an "abortion," I did agree to be induced at a point when I knew my baby was wouldn't survive. I was dying.

So in response to your "mothers should always be willing to give their lives for their children" - I WAS! But it wasn't an option. I was dying and my child was not viable. If I didn't survive to support her - she was going to die. So either I induced, and she died, or I died, and she died. Either way - she died. So I agreed to not die too.

It's not always as cut and dried as you seem to believe.

Anonymous said...

Why did God make IVF possible?

Anonymous said...

So, then the logical extention of your view on IVF is: why cure cancer, or diabetes, or heart disease? Why have medicine at all? If only the fittest are to survive, and it's not God's plan to "cure" infertility, it's also not God's plan to have any medical intervention at all. Logic

Anonymous said...

I also was going to say that your arguement is nonsensical. According to your "logic" someone diagnosed with cancer, that is undergoing chemo or radiation, is "thumbing their nose to God". Or that someone that lost a leg in an automobile accident isn't supposed to get a prosthesis because God meant for them to live the rest of their life with only one limb? I tend to not judge people for the lifestyle in which they choose to live, but if you want to pick apart a choice I made (undergoing an IUI to conceive my son) I'm going to pick apart yours. You say that what I did is immoral and offensive to God, yet you're a lesbian. Umm..the Bible clearly states that is offensive to God. I never found anything in the Bible that says what I did is offensive. God knew my son before he was even in my womb, and God created him. God knew the desires of my heart, and I thank God every day for the little miracle that I'm holding in my arms.

Anonymous said...

So you belive in Evolution and actually use it for rationale as to why IVF and all infterility treatments are wrong? Didn't God (at least as you would believe) evolve the human brain to think of advancements like IVF? And do you really mean to tell me that children born from infertility treatments are morally wrong? I'd check your Bible again.

Anemone Pie said...

Whooooo! I didn't expect the Anons to come out in droves! Okay, I like referring to people by name when there is a lot to comment on so I'm going to change my settings to no more Anons. Sorry folks, you'll have to at least make up a fake name to post here anymore so I can call you something other than Anon and your posting time. I have to make a bank run but I'll answer everyone tonight, make no mistake. :-D

Anemone Pie said...

BD1125, perfect sense. You can't pick and choose morals based on what works best for you at the time. Is that it?

Anon1:15, my views aren't twisted at all. They actually are quite logical for being based in religion. I'm confused, though, as to why you'd say I think pro-lifers should be killing abortion doctors when I quite plainly said this: "Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way, *no how*, advocating killing abortion doctors." Next time, read what I say before you comment, okay? Thanks!

Anemone Pie said...

Melissa, I'm really so sorry you had to go through that and felt you had no other choice. I'm not sure what else to say, but I wish you didn't have to carry that pain in your heart.

Anon2:97, your situation is a different one in that, as you said, nothing you did could have saved your child. If it can't be done, it can't be done. I'm very, very sorry for your loss.

Anemone Pie said...

Anon3:09, God didn't make IVF possible, imo. He simply gave us intelligence and expects us to develop and use it reasonably and responsibly. Man made IVF possible and God chose to allow us to make our own mistakes and deal with the repercussions of our actions, I believe. Didn't your parents ever allow you to make your own mistakes if you persisted in something foolish in order to satisfy a selfish desire? Same thing with, say, nuclear weaponry. Just because we *can doesn't mean we *should.

Anon3:18, EXACTLY! See, that wasn't so hard to understand, now was it? ;-)

Anon3:53, you can't compare a prosthesis with cancer treatment. One is life-altering, one is not. And you think *my argument is nonsensical? Alrighty, then! And you are most welcome to try to pick my life apart any time you like...if I put something out there, it's open for comments. Yes, I'm a lesbian. God chose to make me this way. It would have been nice if He'd chosen something a little easier but this is what he picked out for me and I accept that He has a reason for it. God makes no mistakes, but boy, He can sure give us some rough paths to follow toward Him sometimes. Where in the world, though, does the Bible say that being a lesbian is offensive to God? I ask since I'm not all that familiar with the Bible but haven't ever heard of that. Thanks!

Anemone Pie said...

Anon4:04, I believe in both Evolution and what Christians call Creationism, both. I'll enlarge on that, if you'd like. But yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you...it's morally wrong, imo. God meant us to procreate naturally if we're intended to procreate at all. If we can't do so and still crave the love of a child, we're meant to take a child already on this earth but lacking parents. Really, if you remove selfishness from the equation, it is just common sense. Oh, and what would I be checking for? Help me out here, folks! Don't just tell me to check my Bible. Give me verses or something!

Whew! That was fun and thanks to everyone for commenting!

Lacy said...

May I ask how your son was conceived if you're a lesbian?

Regarding your life style choice and the Bible- there are plenty of scriptures that reflect on how it is a sin.

Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman it is an abomination"

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman both them have done what is detestable. They be put to death"

Romans 1:26-27 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion".

1 Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know the wicked will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters not adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexuals..."

Lets not forget about Sodom and Gomorrah.

Now show me where in the Bible it says that I'm immoral for treating a medical condition that causes my ovaries to have cysts all around them?

You know I can promise you one thing, you will never, ever see me post on a public blog calling my son as "asshole" and a "fucktard". Mother of the year right there. *snickers*

Anemone Pie said...

Lacy, Honey, you're almost famous now. ;-)